Show 82 Discussion February 2012
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Rob Crossan and Liz Carr 

rob	So Liz we're in the month of February which of course means Valentine's Day, the day of cheap petrol station forecourt flowers, Milk Tray and awkward couples in suburban restaurants... 	
liz	You cynical old sod. 	
rob	... and it got me to thinking could you ever love a disabled person?	
liz	Rob, you do ask the most romantic questions? Is this a proposal? 	
rob	Hmmm maybe.	
liz	It's okay. 	
rob	No, no I'll be honest...	
liz	No it's not, it's fine.	
rob	... with you no it's not. 	
liz	I know. 	
rob	I'm interested in you for your brain not your body which, frankly, is falling apart at the seams. 	
liz	I've heard that so many times - that chat up line I mean. Would I? Of course I would, of course yes why wouldn't I?	
rob	But you're not though you're married to a woman who is incredibly physical capable. 	
liz	Yes it's true. 	
rob 	Convenient that isn't it because you can't really do that much. 	
liz	Well in these days of social welfare cuts and, bearing in mind I don't want to end up... 	
rob	This is what we're saying, listeners, if in doubt marry your carer! Look what it did for Liz. 	
liz	I don't want to end up in a care home I mean, you know. 	
rob	Well it's true this is actually a serious point because I've never gone out with another person who has a disability because, frankly, I do think it would be a massive inconvenience, particularly if their disability was visual. So I like going out with someone who can drive and who can direct me to places. And love really would have to conquer all before it for me to love someone whose eyesight was as bad, or worse, than mine. 	
liz	But what about I mean you're saying about a disabled person with the same condition as you, what about a wheelchair user who can drive and direct you?	
rob	I think that would be fine. 	
liz	What about... 	
rob	That would probably be okay.	
liz	Really?	
rob	They'd have to be really hot, obviously, but other than that no it would be fine, no I wouldn't have a problem with that I don't think. 	
liz	But would she be down, would she be way down the scale of possibilities, do you know what I mean? 	
rob	No not really. We've had a few wheelchair users on the show over the last few years who I've thought were incredibly hot. But obviously I'm not coming across as very deep here am I?	
liz	No it's fine you never do, so don't worry about that.	
rob	Why change the record?	
liz	That's not why we have you on the show.	
rob	Not for my depth.	
liz	It's not. 	
rob	Just have good eyesight that's what I require. 	
liz	Good eyesight.	
rob	It would be really difficult for me to have another albino or a blindy in my life. 	
liz	Yeah but you know like we know lots of blind people that marry their own ((0:02:21.8?)) 	
rob	Well I never understand these, it's like inbreeding to me I just can't understand it because to me I think a lot of the time it's because people with some disabilities, especially if they go to special schools and things like that, their field of social contacts is quite narrow and they only really end up socialising with other people with the same disability. So they perhaps don't have so much of a choice in the matter. I mean you must have had moments in your life and there's been periods of your life where you barely met anyone other than other ((disableds - sic)).	
liz	It's very true. And I think yes and I did go through a phase whenever I did anything with the 'normal world' - I'll just use that phrase - that I would kind of look round and go, "Hm is there anyone here that I find attractive?" And then if there wasn't I'd be disappointed. So a new work situation or a night class or something that I joined...	
rob	Yeah of course you want someone attractive to be there. 	
liz	But I'd be looking around for the possibility and I think you're right, I think that there's something about who you spend a lot of time with but I think there's something there about comfort. And so I'm married to a non disabled woman and it's great in terms of convenience because we can do stuff and she can assist me if I needed it. But then I do have... 	
rob	My mind is running wild. 	
liz	But then I do have personal assistants, I do have helpers and they live with us. And they help and do the things that I can't do. Because Jo had a lot of involvement with disability, she used to be an access worker, and so she knows about disability stuff, so I didn't have to train her up, do you know what I mean? She kind of knew things.	
rob	It's an unspoken arrangement where she just knows without you having to ask what's needed.	
liz	Yeah absolutely. So I wonder if that's why because it was quite easy but I wonder if people do marry other disabled people because there's that understanding.	
rob	I do like the fact that falling in love with you requires quite a lot of professional training. 	
liz	But it's also... yeah we're talking the practical stuff but it's also the emphasising and the knowing. I mean I remember one of my ex's and the first time that we went out together and the taxi arrived, and of course the taxi driver was just a typical grumpy, "Oh so I've got to get the ramps out to get you in" and who I was with at the time just didn't know what to do. 	
rob	But did he not fight for your honour?	
liz	Well he didn't know whether to and kind of come on and state the cause and I think that's it if you're not around disability you're awkward around it. So, on that note, do you not find it difficult sometimes with non-disabled girlfriends because they don't get it or they don't understand? 	
rob	I find people are remarkably good at getting it because there's not that much to get, to be quite honest. I can't see very well, you read the menu, you read the jumbo A-Z - it's really not that hard. And yeah I don't really remember any girlfriends of mine genuinely wrestling with it. The fact that I've Asperger's Syndrome that's a completely different kettle of fish, yes that is something that I've definitely had problems with in relationships with women who think that I'm using it as a shield or as an excuse for my sometimes less than perfect behaviour. And that's something that's... And you're right it shouldn't be used as an excuse and I make a point of not using it to justify my actions but it's something that at least I need to be with woman who at least believes in the condition because I think Asperger's is often quite similar to ME. A lot of people don't actually credit the fact that it exists. 	
liz	Yeah it's like not real and it's ((0:05:51.6?)) 	
rob	Yeah exactly. And so I would certainly need to be with someone who at least believes in the validity of the condition and the personal element of it between me and her and that dynamic that can come later. But I have gone out with a girl who basically just pooh-poohed the entire condition and that was obviously a fairly fatal blow for the relationship. 	
liz	You see that's really interesting because I guess that they know what they're getting with you or they think they do on one level. 	
rob	They think they do but they haven't got a clue.	
liz	And then you've got this little hidden can or worms. 	
rob	Just when you thought you were getting comfortable. How do you like them apples, let me hit you with a mental as well as a physical. 	
liz	So you asked me would I ever go out - I probably wouldn't now since I'm married and it would be wrong to say I will, but... 	
rob	You're so old fashioned. 	
liz	... I would but maybe the question should be have I ever been out with anyone who's disabled. 	
rob	And the answer to that is... I'm suspecting it might be a no. 	
liz	It's a no. 	
rob	Yeah why did I think that? 	
liz	Well why did you think that?	
rob	I don't know.	
liz	Because I think a lot of people would think that I have. 	
rob	No I just thought you probably don't want to talk about standard disability issues very much because your professional life is very full of those kind of issues and I presume you want to get away from that when you're down Pizza Express.	
liz	Hm interesting. I think that's quite... no that's not a take I would have expected, because I know when this topic was brought up and I know that the producer was a little bit surprised that I had never been out with a disabled person, I, not for the want of trying, but then that was never reciprocated.	
rob	It's just that the crips don’t like you, Liz.	
liz	I was like, "Please, please let me go out with you, please?" "No." And I once met a guy online, internet dating, we got on brilliantly, brilliantly and just before we were about to meet I declared that I was a wheelchair user - I hadn't right? And they were a bit weird about it and that wasn't the first time that had happened to me, it had happened to me before and I just thought, oh just typical somebody's weird about the fact that I'm disabled. And he was weird about it because he was disabled too. And he wanted to not go out with somebody that was. But we did meet up and it was probably the worst day... 	
rob	Excruciating. 	
liz	... that I have ever had.	
rob	Absolutely excruciating. 	
liz	Absolutely. You know I probably would've but he, no. No I don't think even over dinner he would look at me and it was just horrible. 	
rob	And on that bombshell, Happy Valentine's Day to all of you.	
liz	Happy Valentines!