Use BBC.com or the new BBC App to listen to BBC podcasts, Radio 4 and the World Service outside the UK.

Find out how to listen to other BBC stations

Episode details

Radio 4,06 May 2026,14 mins

Rats, Risk and Reward

Naturebang

Available for over a year

Jackpot! Lights are flashing, bells are ringing, and you collect your big reward. No, this isn't Vegas, but it might as well be. We're in a specially designed casino for rats, where they gamble in pursuit of the Big Win: delicious sugar pellets. For both rats and humans, a finely tuned ability to assess risk against reward is essential for navigating an unpredictable world. We're pretty good at it. But why are we so easily derailed by the toxic allure of the Big Win, the roll-over Jackpot, the risk-it-all-on-black strategy which makes no rational sense? The answer may surprise you, and may also give you some insight into why you can't stop late-night doom-scrolling on your phone. Featuring Catharine Winstanley, Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia, and Natasha Schull, cultural anthropologist and associate professor at New York University. Produced and presented by Emily Knight and Becky Ripley.

Programme Website
More episodes