Ex-minister not ruling out leadership bid yet

Former defence minister Al Carns has said a major economics speech due to be given by Andy Burnham will help him decide whether to challenge the Labour leadership favourite.

The Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak said he hoped to hear "really clear and concise outcomes" for where Burnham sees the country over the next decade.

"We need to see a vision, we need to see the plan because unfortunately a vision without a plan is a dream," he said.

"What I would like to see is where do we want to be by 2029 and where do we want to be by 2034-35."

Carns continued: "Is it the healthiest nation in Europe, is it adding a trillion pounds onto our GDP, is national security important, how do we get the next generation to have a better deal than the last generation et cetera, et cetera."

"And then a plan to deliver it, and it doesn't need to be the detail but it needs to be there.

"Let's see how that lands, let's see how much that pulls everybody together."

He told BBC Politics Midlands: "I'm not going to start jumping up and down until I've had a look."

To take part in any leadership contest, Carns would need to secure the nominations of 81 Labour MPs, and further endorsements from Labour affiliates such as trade unions.

Other leading figures, including Wes Streeting and Darren Jones, have already decided not to run against Burnham, as momentum in the party grows behind the former Greater Manchester Mayor.

Carns resigned as Armed Forces Minister earlier this month due to concerns over the defence budget, a pressing issue for the next prime minister.

The government is expected to reveal its Defence Investment Plan ahead of a Nato summit on 7 July, despite the resignation of Sir Keir Starmer.

Carns said the topic of defence was one of the "key factors" he would be looking out for in Burnham's speech, stating: "It's much broader than just defence, bombs, bullets and battleships, it's actually about national resilience."

He also said, if it were up to him, he would not target welfare spending to raise money for defence.

"I think the premise of the question is welfare over warfare - a pound off a nurse to give it to a soldier? And I just don't agree with that premise," he said.

"I actually think there's a far broader strategy across all the government departments to make it more productive and indeed shave 10% off... by actually enhancing our standards across the country."

Neil Shastri-Hurst, Conservative MP for Solihull West and Shirley, told the programme his party would look at social security spending.

"We've been very clear, we think the money should come from the welfare state," he said.

"The welfare state should be there to protect the most vulnerable but it shouldn't be there as a better alternative to going out to work.

"So we would reintroduce the two-child benefit cap, we would be cutting that welfare bill - at the moment the defence budget is a fifth of what we spend on welfare."

Dawn Husemann, Reform UK group leader on Shropshire Council, said there were "tens of millions" that could be taken from net zero and the welfare system.

She said: "We've already committed to [spending] 3.5% [of GDP] by 2035 on defence spending which is incredibly important, we pull our weight on the world's stage and we see that as a floor not a ceiling."

"Spending is about political choices and those choices at the moment are net zero, they are benefits for non-British people.

"We need to be looking at that because there are tens of millions that could be used there, and we need to actually utilise our resources for drilling."

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